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Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3181
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Posted - 2014.06.19 20:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
The recent deluge of freighter ganking and other hisec lawlessness is a travesty. Yeah I get it, it's Eve you can do what you want, sandbox, HTFU, etc etc etc.
But we people who choose to focus on things other than destructio (and keep Eve running in the process) have no way to fight back! Not just that, but it's worse: those doing productive things are actively helping the destroyers by providing materials, ships, ammo, and fuel! This is terrible!
If you were an automobile manufacturer IRL would you sell your cars to a guy who has a record of using those cars to nudge lorries off the road, or cause horrific traffic accidents on purpose? NO! Why can we not do the same thing?
CCP this is an enemy that only fights on his terms and has the objective of ruining the game. We want to advance and contribute to the game. Give us market pirate blacklisting, or sec status limits on orders, so we can fight them on our terms! More content for everyone and Eve grows.
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3181
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Posted - 2014.06.19 21:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:But we people who choose to focus on things other than destructio (and keep Eve running in the process) have no way to fight back! Yes you do. And even if you didn't, why would you want to? Morals.
Tippia wrote:Quote:If you were an automobile manufacturer IRL would you sell your cars to a guy who has a record of using those cars to nudge lorries off the road, or cause horrific traffic accidents on purpose? Yes. Pretty much all of them do, because it's not really in their interest not to, nor is it their business to police those things. Oh, and no, the market will never have any limitations on it that reduces its efficiency for the simple reason that this would be horribly bad for the market. If you absolutely have to control who transacts with you, the game already has that functionality. All it means is that you completely remove your ability to sell in bulk and/or at a high margin, though. Are you talking about contracts? Because Public contracts cannot be limited by sec status. They could also use this change if it hurts the market's "efficiency" too much (how does processing fewer orders hurt efficiency?).
To all the gankbears here who are (correctly) pointing out that alts circumvent this: good. Every measure should have a countermeasure, this is Eve. More risk and cost to gankers (even in the form of an alt) is a good thing. Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3181
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Posted - 2014.06.19 21:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alternative Splicing wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote: But we people who choose to focus on things other than destructio (and keep Eve running in the process) have no way to fight back! Not just that, but it's worse: those doing productive things are actively helping the destroyers by providing materials, ships, ammo, and fuel! This is terrible!
Gallente blaster boat producers are probably making a killing off these ganks, and without aforementioned destruction, EvE stops running; they are giving lots of people jobs and content on the industrial side. You are always in competition with everyone else - why not sell a high volume product which you can get other people to use shutting down your potential competition? Seems like a great business opportunity. Selling goods with a short shelf life ensures business stays good too. Also neutral alts would make implementing this impossible. If you were seriously hell-bent and wanted to use market anonymity to your advantage, why not sell catalysts a little bit cheaper than you should, wait to see who buys them in bulk, and then gank the freighter that ends up moving them to their intended party-zone? Step up your game. So all the talk about Eve having non-violent PvP in the market and stuff is smoke and mirrors? I am aware enabling socipoaths is profitable but I'm asking to limit profits in order to not enable crime. Eve would only "stop running" (under your definition) if everyone jumped on board and limted their transactions. They won't, because it's profitable not to.
Anyway must the solution always be "shoot it"? It's a sandbox, shouldn't there be more options than violence all the time? Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3181
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Posted - 2014.06.19 21:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: So implementing this idea would not affect me one little bit, even if someone wanted to.
So its like missioning in a Drake when drones get rebalanced. Congratulations, you are playing patch-proof correctly.
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3186
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Posted - 2014.06.19 21:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:Anyway must the solution always be "shoot it"? It's a sandbox, shouldn't there be more options than violence all the time? There are. You just have to choose to use them. Your choice not to do so isn't sufficient reason to break the engine that makes the game turn around. When the only solutions to an economic problem are "shoot the *******" and "give up and go back to trading in shiny pebbles and using an abacus" there is a need for a new solution. Eve being what it is, that needs to involve a change to mechanics. Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3186
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Posted - 2014.06.19 21:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: You already have violent solutions to your perceived problem. Opening up other non-violent means to fight back will also open up other fronts on which people can also fight against you.
Good. I'm proposing a new way to play, not a "make everything easy-mode" button. Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3186
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Posted - 2014.06.19 21:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:When the only solutions to an economic problem are "shoot the *******" and "give up and go back to trading in shiny pebbles and using an abacus" there is a need for a new solution. Eve being what it is, that needs to involve a change to mechanics. No. Just build your own. No mechanics need to be changed in the process, and doing so would just break things and kill one of the key points of the market. All the tools you need are there. If you can't be arsed to build it, then that's just another check-box on the list of things that aren't sufficient reason to break a core mechanic, right alongside the other ones you've offered so far. So... if I asked for CCP to fix the forum eating my posts your solution would be to tell me to go build my own forum system and get people using them because the tools are there? Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3186
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Posted - 2014.06.19 21:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: Scipio ...
It's Petrus.
He's trolling ...
That's a very mean thing to say. I honestly propose an idea to improve Eve for everyone by enabling more economic conflict and that means I'm trolling? Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3187
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Posted - 2014.06.19 22:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Good. I'm proposing a new way to play, not a "make everything easy-mode" button. Then surely you should be celebrating the Code, Marmites and the organisations they and other gankers/wardeccers have built around their activities? They also dislike the easy-mode playstyle of bots and people in highsec that have a general disregard for their own safety. So if I understand you correctly, you want this feature in order to use against people who get ganked because they are playing the game on easy-mode. I think the title of your thread might be a little misleading then. ... What? CODE is good emergent gameplay that belongs in Eve but that doesn't mean I support them! Your logic is contrived.
BuckStrider wrote: Have you considered buying a permit from a New Order agent? At 10m per year, it's a real bargain.
Come and get me, big boy. Not all bears lack teeth. Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3187
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Posted - 2014.06.19 22:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cazador 64 wrote:I like the idea. Or maybe set tax brackets for bad standings. Basically you can charge more based on standings or sec status. I think you're looking for standings "surcharge" instead of "tax". Tax implies an ISK sink and a rigid "hard" nerf to pirates. Nobody wants that. Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
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Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3187
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Posted - 2014.06.19 22:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Cazador 64 wrote:I like the idea. Or maybe set tax brackets for bad standings. Basically you can charge more based on standings or sec status. Ah, so for the best prices I should only shop on my no-pvp 5.0 sec status alt. And this solves what exactly? Is 5.0 sec so easy to achieve that literally every ganker has such an alt? A system like the one proposed here increases the value of "lawful" characters, be they alts or mains. Why is that a problem? Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3187
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Posted - 2014.06.19 22:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Shederov Blood wrote:Why do you people say, "It can easily be circumvented with alts," like that's a bad thing? More people needing more alts is good for CCP, and what's good for CCP is good for EVE. I think any and all of us could circumvent it with our existing complement of alts.. so lots of coding work for CCP with no new driver for more accounts. And any and all of us circumvent distance restrictions on purchases with trade alts, too. Should distance restrictions (like buying something in Jita while you are in Rens) be removed because they are countered by alts?
It's called the cost of convenience. Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3187
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Posted - 2014.06.19 22:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It punishes players who go into low sec to kill pirates (say that pirate has repaired his sec status, the 'good guy' shooting him will take a sec hit in low for killing a bad guy and as a result would have to pay more in high sec to replace lost ships). Unfair sec status loss is a different problem entirely, which I do not have a solution to. Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3187
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Posted - 2014.06.19 22:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote: Is 5.0 sec so easy to achieve that literally every ganker has such an alt?
Yep. I can't speak for "literally every ganker", but myself and every ganker (and most of the wardecers) I hang out with has them, yeah. Gotta run locators somehow. Quote: A system like the one proposed here increases the value of "lawful" characters, be they alts or mains. Why is that a problem?
It's not a problem. It's merely pointing out a gaping flaw in your proposal. That being, that it would have no functional effect besides making things more of a pain in the ass for new players. It has often puzzled me why every "proposal" people come up with to combat the theoretical problem of ganking would almost always have the effect of sharply discouraging new players in some aspect of the game. New players come in at -10 sec status now? No sane marketeer looking for profit would limit by sec status over 0.0 security, since that eliminates a huge chunk of buyers.
If a new player chooses to wreck his sec status I don't see why he should be exempt from the same consequences older players face. Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3187
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Posted - 2014.06.19 22:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It also takes a huge amount of arrogance for people to think that they could come up with an idea that would work as intended in an enetertainment product used by thousands upon thousands of very creative and dastardly gamers. So far nobody has proposed anything that invalidates the idea's usefulness. There have been counters and uses for both sides in the "gankers vs carebears" conflict posted. Is an idea bad just beacuse it doesn't benefit a specific group of people?
Here's an idea: send me 100 million ISK and I will spend it on stuff. It will work as intended, won't backfire, and the cash flow will boost Eve's economy. Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3188
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Posted - 2014.06.19 22:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Stop manufacturing. Stop marketing. Let them run out of their little dessies. See what they do then. If we're lucky, they'll all migrate to Elder Scrolls Online, and we can go back to what we do best here. "Stop playing" is exactly what griefers want. Why not take a page out of their book and make me play my way instead? Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3194
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Posted - 2014.06.20 17:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Stealth nerf ganking I support this idea. The less you sell to those who gank you, the more I sell to those who gank you. Hardly a stealth nerf to ganking. Glad to see people are coming around though. Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3195
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Posted - 2014.06.20 19:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Hiding behind alts is the single biggest reason to completely lock all the gankbears out of highsec stations.
We've got -10 security pirates taking down fully tanked ships , and far from lowec systems, all made possible by their high securiy alts doing the prep work and the complete safety of stations. You've got to be a trully risk averse carebear to support this type of system. ~~But orca alts just circumvent that.~~
See? That stupid alt argument can be used to argue against a lot of changes that would make the game better. Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
3196
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Posted - 2014.06.20 20:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Sentamon wrote:Hiding behind alts is the single biggest reason to completely lock all the gankbears out of highsec stations.
We've got -10 security pirates taking down fully tanked ships , and far from lowec systems, all made possible by their high securiy alts doing the prep work and the complete safety of stations. You've got to be a trully risk averse carebear to support this type of system. ~~But orca alts just circumvent that.~~ See? That stupid alt argument can be used to argue against a lot of changes that would make the game better. Yes they do. Still don't understand why forming a fleet with people doesn't set everyones security to that of the lowest security member. I realize big bad pirates want their warm milk and safetly blanket but lets be real here. Whoever designed Crimewatch needs to take it beyond the scribbles on the back of a napkin stage and put some real coding behind it. Because joining an innocent-looking +10 sec character's fleet will get you killed since he has a -10 sec alt sitting in a safe spot in system, and joins the fleet right after you join it, causing you to become instantly shootable? Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
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